2011 Santander British GP (Silverstone)

[Mothers Worry]

Get over the team orders thing.
If you have a multi million project and you are about to collect a 2nd and 3rd how dumb would it be to allow the risk of finishing with nothing after an emotional last lap lung to satisfy someones ego. (Oh and about 1% of your market in far off Australia).

Well, it's a shame OT that it comes down to marketing rather than racing. At least Hamilton and Massa gave us a race to the line.

As far as I'm concerned it is not whether there are team orders but, as mentioned above, when the team says one thing to the media and fans and then does otherwise do you not expect people to question the team's approach to how they handle this issue? I notice a lot of comments on Twitter (as quoted by Thruster post-race) consider that team orders should be penalised. 

I would much prefer it if they just came out and said they favoured Vettel rather than going on with their marketing codswallop. But of course this is a team that is not in the automotive market at all; it's an energy drink company.

In my opinion  the race was generally uninteresting but got better in the last 15 minutes.

Good win for Fatty and it was good to see another team on the top step again, rather than RBR or McL.

Lucky for Webber's campaign that Button's crew had the wheel nut incident.

It certainly was not a race that got me out of my chair.

Now that I've watched it all I'd give Webber some points as Diplomat of the Day for his performance during the post-race interviews.

[bpratt]

Ricciardo finished behind Liuzi, but his fastest lap was nearly a second faster.
Get over the team orders thing.
If you have a multi million project and you are about to collect a 2nd and 3rd how dumb would it be to allow the risk of finishing with nothing after an emotional last lap lung to satisfy someones ego. (Oh and about 1% of your market in far off Australia).

Agreed, we are all aware of the fact that team orders exist, and have done for the whole time of F1 TEAMS.

Whilst I would have far preferred Webber to get past Vettel, part of me believe that Vettel would not have allowed it to happen, even to the extent of taking each other out to prevent Webber from taking his second spot away from him.

In that case, team orders was possibly the wisest thing to do, as then both RBR cars finish upon the podium.

There was no need for Vettel to finish 2nd over 3rd, as his lead is quite huge, but I remember back to the year when Schumacher broke his leg at Silverstone, and Irvine was then thrust on to number one position in order to try and win the championship, but because Ferrari chose to have a definate number one, Irvine never had enough points advantage to keep himself in with a chance.

That's something RBR need to be very careful of, if Vettel does harm to himself where he has to stand down from races, have RBR given Webber enough points to keep RBR in front for the rest of the season, particular now RBR don't have as much of an advantage as they once used to.

If not for Button going out for a wheel not done up, chance are Button would have been a clear number 2 in the championship. RBR need to remember that.

[Bumble1290]

Ricciardo finished behind Liuzi, but his fastest lap was nearly a second faster.
Get over the team orders thing.
If you have a multi million project and you are about to collect a 2nd and 3rd how dumb would it be to allow the risk of finishing with nothing after an emotional last lap lung to satisfy someones ego. (Oh and about 1% of your market in far off Australia).

Totally agree about the team orders, there is nothing in the rule book that says they are not allowed to use them. I wasn't very happy about it either as I wanted Webber to pass him, why risk the points for 2nd and 3rd, but hey that's life.

[coops]

I understand team orders are a part of F1 but that doesn't mean I have to like it. As it turns out there are reports now that Webbo didn't take any notice of the orders and fought to the end anyway.

[Ian G.]

It would be interesting to know exactly what lap Horners "team order" came,the BBC clip released by race control has verying  degrees of delay although the Hamilton "fuel saving" grab seemed to be almost live.
Also interesting to see Vettel scrubbing tyres,he seemed "gone" the last few laps.

[Jiji_the_cat]

Interesting race. Well done fatty, you stopped Vettel.

Briliant start by Vettel, i honestly thought he was going to tare away after that massive gap he built. Good to see the conditions then coming back to the others.

Great little scrap between Maldonado and Kobi. Maldanado is one driver that seems to be getting better and warming right up to F1. He is improving, especially at qualifying since the monaco GP.

As for the maintain gap thing, i'm not swayed either way. I think MW did a good job closing the gap and showcasing his status (or rather lack of) at Red Bull.  Dont think anyhting will change their, Vettel and Webber team mates next year with nothing changed.

  To the FIA for the whole rule clarification / restrictions / diffuser rubbish they are putting us through in the middle of a season.

[Mothers Worry]

Totally agree about the team orders, there is nothing in the rule book that says they are not allowed to use them. I wasn't very happy about it either as I wanted Webber to pass him, why risk the points for 2nd and 3rd, but hey that's life.

Webber or no Webber I wasn't very happy about it because I wanted to see motor racing. That means drivers driving the cars 10/10ths and overtaking each other for the glory; not "marketing".

Now people will say: "Well they are obviously paranoid about the fact that other drivers are showing Vettel up and he's not bulletproof because he needs team orders to protect him".

I think MW did a good job closing the gap and showcasing his status (or rather lack of) at Red Bull.  Dont think anyhting will change their, Vettel and Webber team mates next year with nothing changed.

Too true.

[Oldtony]

Quite simply Vettel and Webber are very well paid employees who have a job most of us would be very glad to have.
They contribute one small part of a team effort and are supported by a whole range of designers, technicians, engineers, logistics people, etc.
That being the case the people who pay the bills are entitled to say DON'T RISK MY INVESTMENT.

[Ian G.]

Yeah,the "Team" had everything to loose and nothing to gain but still painfull for Mark.
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/motorsport/webber-rebuked-for-ignoring--team-orders-20110711-1ha9i.html

[Mothers Worry]

I never realised investment banking was such a big sport...........

With F1and the FIA the way it is now perhaps we should just let all the investment bankers and lawyers get out on track and bore us to tears with monthly account balances and case law. Who needs these expensive drivers anyway when you have guys in suits?

[bpratt]

I think it was a great performance from Ricciardo, albeit finishing at the back of the field, he still finished his first GP in a car that really is a end of field car and hasn't always been that reliable to finish anyway.

He didn't turn anyone around like a 7 times champion did, and got plenty of race miles under his belt.

[Mothers Worry]

Good point. He survived his baptism of fire... so to speak.

[Mothers Worry]

Red Bull keen to retain Webber despite orders

From thef1times.com:

Red Bull keen to retain Webber despite orders

Monday 11th July 2011    

Red Bull are still hopeful of retaining Mark Webber at the end of the current season, despite angering the Australian in the closing stages of the British Grand Prix.

With just a handful of laps remaining, team principal Christian Horner ordered Webber to 'maintain the gap' to Sebastian Vettel, rather than attempt to pass as he had been catching the German at a second a lap.

When asked if the happenings on Sunday would damage the chance of extending the 34-year-old's contract beyond 2011, Horner responded: "I sincerely hope not.

"At the end of the day, it is about the team. I can understand that sometimes a driver will be frustrated with an instruction, but my responsibility is to ensure the team optimises its results."

Webber however was asked a similar question following the race in which he said the 'team-order' would have an influence on his decision to stay with the Milton Keynes based outfit.

That's funny because, when it suits him, it's about letting the drivers race as it's a sport. All this proves is that this guy couldn't lie straight in bed.

[Mothers Worry]

Mateschitz: 'Webber right to race Vettel'

From thef1tiimes.com:

Mateschitz: 'Webber right to race Vettel'

Wednesday 13th July 2011   

Red Bull team owner and billionaire Dietrich Mateschitz says Mark Webber was right to fight Sebastian Vettel at the British Grand Prix for second place.

The Australian was told to 'maintain the gap' to Vettel in the closing few laps after catching him at a rapid pace. Webber denied the order and continued to push, in the end he finished just four tenths behind.

Mateschitz says he has no problem with Webber denying the teams orders to hold position.

"This is no problem for us," he told Autosport. "Sebastian realised that Fernando Alonso was gone and could not be caught anymore, so he backed down. This let Mark close in. He would be a very bad racer had he not tried to attack and gain a position."

The 67-year-old is also confident that Webber will remain with the Milton Keynes based outfit next year, saying he has no better option and nor do they.

"Mark Webber will re-sign with us," he said. "This will happen for sure. He is very popular within the team, he feels very comfortable and it is an excellent relationship. He knows this and we know it.

"To be honest, Mark has no better choice than the fastest car and we have no better choice for a fast driver."

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Horner accuses Webber of being selfish

From thef1tiimes.com:

Horner accuses Webber of being selfish

Thursday 14th July 2011    

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner has accused Mark Webber of thinking about only himself, rather than the team at last weekends British GP.

The Australian denied team orders and continued to pressure Sebastian Vettel in the closing laps of the race, but couldn't pass, though he came close on a number of occasions.

Horner believes Webber was selfish to risk 33-points for the team had they collided, as they did in Turkey last year, costing them a 1-2 finish.

"He [Webber] risked Sebastian's second place, his third place and 33-points for the team," Horner told Bild. "I understand that he's racing, but he also unnecessarily risked a crash.

"If all 500 people in the team thought only of themselves, we would never achieve our goals."

However, former-champion Damon Hill has absolutely back Webber in his actions, though he understands the teams point of view, he has urged the sport to allow teammates to race one another.

"It would have been very sad if it had ended up in a collision between Sebastian and Mark, but I have to speak up for drivers," he told the BBC.

"I think they also have a licence or a right to be able to race whenever they want to, and it's their call as to whether they are able to manage that overtaking manoeuvre on their team-mate or not without taking him off.

"The fans want to see racing, so I think there's some discussion that needs to happen in the sport about how you manage that.

"I understand the investment, I understand the commitment and the work and the time and everything, but ultimately, you can't stop racing drivers from racing each other."

O.k I've said my piece about this dipstick Horner in the past so I'll just post this: 

As for Dietrich's comment:

Webber has no choice but to race; whether he is racing Vettel or anyone else in the field. You hired him to do what he does as a professional; in other words he's a race car driver.

[Mothers Worry]

Webber: British GP team-orders a one-off

From thef1times.com:

Webber: British GP team-orders a one-off

Thursday 21st July 2011

Mark Webber insists that the team-orders issued at the British Grand Prix will be a one-off after discussing the matter with team principal Christian Horner.

The Australian was told to 'maintain the gap' after he caught Vettel in the closing stages of the race. Webber decided to ignore the orders and tried to overtake but couldn't.

The 34-year-old says Horner reassured him the same order would have been issued to Vettel had he been behind Webber.

"We had a chat straight after the race debrief. Christian put his view forward of how the situation built and he came to decision he made, and I put my case forward in how the situation built and we thought that we were both making the right decision, him to make the call for the team's interest and I was in a situation where I was trying to improve my own position," remarked Webber.

"We spoke about it, he guaranteed me that it would have been the same situation the other way around if Seb was closing in on me, he would have still shut the race down. It was over pretty quick really."

Webber says the two are free to race and the situation at Silverstone was an 'awkward one'.

"If there is a similar situation, it is not often that you are closing in the last few laps, that was the awkward one I think," he added.

"We are still free to race most of the time - it was an awkward one and it is not often that things like that happen in terms of the time of the race, and up until then we will be racing."

Well, sorry Mark Webber, but that seems like a pretty lame excuse; especially when it depends on believing anything that comes out of Horner's mouth.

You're in a position to know for a fact not me. What I do know for a fact is that there were a hell of lot of disappointed and pissed off, very pissed off, race fans back here in Australia.

[Jiji_the_cat]

maybe webber is just taking it on the chin for contract negotiations, perhaps.