FOTA issues and discussion.

[Mothers Worry]

Brawn happy to head FOTA's tech side 

From autosport.com:

Brawn happy to head FOTA's tech side 

Thursday, August 7th 2008, 10:18 GMT

Honda Racing boss Ross Brawn is ready to take on responsibility for coordinating the technical aspects of new regulations currently being put together by Formula One teams.

F1 outfits have been asked by FIA president Max Mosley to come up with a series of regulations for 2011 that will help reduce costs and improve the sport's environmental credentials.

If they do not do so by October this year, then the FIA will impose its own radical regulations - which could include the use of common parts and engine rules that limit the amount of fuel teams can use.

As a result of the FIA's stance, F1's entrants have put together the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) to help coordinate their efforts and allow them to focus discussions with the FIA and F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone.

Part of FOTA's remit will also be to frame new regulations, and Brawn has made it clear that if rivals teams are happy for him to do so, he will be willing to take charge of coordinating the technical aspects between all the outfits.

"It still has to be fully decided, but I am happy to do that if the teams would like me to," Brawn told autosport.com. "But that is another stage down the line.

"We need the first stage done first, which is about how we can all work together without making it too heavy. We need to have something that is clear, but we don't want a 100-page document. It would be a shame if it resorted to that."

F1 teams are encouraged by the unity shown in creating FOTA, which comes at a time of unease caused by the Max Mosley sex scandal and questions about F1 owners CVC Capital Partners' commitment to the long-term future.

But although agreement in creating FOTA was fairly easy to reach, getting the necessary approval for technical regulations will be much harder – which is why someone with Brawn's skills will be useful in coordinating the situation.

Under terms agreed by FOTA, which is headed by Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo, new rules will be approved if seven out of the 10 teams involved support them.

BMW motorsport director Mario Theissen said it was too early to judge if the team's ideas for new rules were similar to what the FIA wanted.

"We appreciate this approach to ask the teams, or in this case to the engine manufacturers to come up with a proposal of next generation engines," he explained. "We have only started to discuss it, but we want to do it.

"What the outcome is in terms of technology, timing and costs, it is too early to say. We can just say that we share the desire to bring costs down. We want to have an engine that carries future road car technology. So the aims are quite similar – but if the approach is the same it is too early to say."

Theissen did dismiss, however, an idea put forward by Mosley that in exchange for freeing up engine technology, that manufacturers must supply engines to customer teams free of charge.

"We are definitely not in the sport to finance several other teams," he said. "We appreciate to have such a broad field. We think we need independent teams in the sport, but no one can expect one team to finance its competitors.

"We have to develop different ideas, like how to keep F1 commercially viable for independent teams. It will be necessary to have a less expensive power train for independent teams, which will come with the next generation engines, but it should not be necessary for one competitor to sponsor another in order to have a race."

[Everso Biggyballies]

FOTA to discuss new qualifying format


It seems even FOTA have caught this we are in an era of 'all change' bug that is spreading through F1 atm.
The Formula One Teams' Association, FOTA, will discuss a new qualifying format for the sport when the body meets next month.

FOTA is looking to spice up qualifying, currently divided in three sessions, two of them including a knockout system.
From Autosport:

The new idea to be looked at consists of all cars jumping onto the track at the same time and with the same amount of fuel, with the slowest driver being eliminated after each lap.

After 14 laps, the six fastest drivers would then fight for pole position, fitting new tyres but still using the same amount of fuel.

The proposal might even include a championship point ( )  for pole position and prize money.  No doubt the proposal will now be amended to read medal in lieu of Point.

The current format, where the ten quickest drivers fight for the top spot in the final session with an amount of fuel decided by the teams, often sees pole position going to a car that's lighter than the rest.

FOTA will meet on December 4 and if the proposed format is agreed upon by all teams, it is expected to be submitted to the FIA for approval.

I dont like it.  They are clearly trying to get to some less strategy / fuel load related result in qualifying. from the the tone about 'the lighter car.....'   Why do they have to change the whole format just to introduce an aspect that can be covered far easier.   All that needs to happen is instead of filling the car to their strategy / 1st stop level at the start of Q3, is that they log that level with the FIA, but are free to run in Q3 with a low level of fuel. Even if they cannot keep refuelling for a 3 or 4 lap run (out, two timed and an in) we will still have the cars doing their last lap on minimal fuel, and we will again have a Q3 where they can go absolutely 100+% as fast as the driver and car can go over a single lap.  That is what the essence of pole is. 

Then simply fill the tanks to their nominated level logged pre Q3.  The added bonus is that the teams can be quite devious on their strategies because there would no longer be the compromise of getting a meaningful number of laps into race but being as fuel lowas you need to be able to qualify at your target row,   Say Trulli puts in one of his full on committed all ok Q laps and is on the front row for the time.... it could be that his team may have elected to fill for say 30 laps and run long.  We will see many hare and toroise type of situations.  Especially given that tyres will be further apart in terms of difference.  The soft may be softer, the hard harder so the tyre factor will be getting the right tyre for the right sector.

I hate all these last one drops out.... it just needs say a minor mistake.  If the teams are as close this year as they were last then a very minor mistake or traffic or non driver related reason can leave a car dropped out.  We have had some enthralling qualifying sessions this year, with many times pole set after the time is up.

Again, we have a case of yes fine tune the current format to maximise it, but why in Gods name completely go out on a limb to do something different and bloody NASCAR like.

IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT!   

[Matt]

Keep it the way it is.

F1 is starting to become less and less recognizable these days It really saddens me to think that I could lose interest in a sport i've devoted 10+ years to

[the Stig]

28 years for me...yeah, I'm an old bastard
I say bring back the old qualifying sessions and get rid of CPS's. Let the teams determine their own tyre/fuel strategies. And scrap the control tyres as well.

[Mothers Worry]

Keep it the way it is.

This old bastard agrees. What the f*** is wrong with it the way it is?!?!!

In my opinion qualifying this year was one of the best parts of the whole weekend. Seeing Hamster and Mass Hysteria on their barnstorming runs and then some extra spice from Alonso was great.

There is a general perception in organisation cultures and management styles that if you aren't changing something (it doesn't matter for the better or worse) then you aren't seen to be effective. This perception is, and always has been, bullsh*t.

Obviously F1 is bound up in "if it isn't boring and it creates competition we should change it". It sounds like they have picked up whatever disease Ecclestone has been spreading around.

Go ahead. Wreck the sport soon no-one (the fans) will care any more.

[73coupe]

I think it is wishful thinking on their part that they will get to the 14 lap mark for the top 6 as there will be so many drivers getting black flagged for blocking other drivers, they will only need about 5 laps for that.  then they will have to bring their own court setup for all the protests that will go to the highest level of appeal before they go racing the next day.    The current system is not broken no need for fixing.

[NCB619]

the best was the 12 lap - 1hr system
any more jerez 97's anyone....but i suppose that can happen now anyways

[Bumble1290]

28 years for me...yeah, I'm an old bastard
I say bring back the old qualifying sessions and get rid of CPS's. Let the teams determine their own tyre/fuel strategies. And scrap the control tyres as well.

Agreed

[Matt]

Personally I prefer the knockout system we have now to the 1 hour session. Now we get three servings of those dying minutes and can actually take interest in cars lower down the order.

The new format they are discussing sounds like something Nascar would do.

[CrashnBurn]

Why change it???? It is excellent as it is

Q1 and Q2 demonstrates outright pace, while Q3 indicates race stragedy for the next day with shorter or longer stint stragedies and the fight for track position on the track or in the pits.

[Prophet][]

Its interesting to keep in mind this is the teams wanting the change, not Burnie or Max. It could be part of their game or maybe the teams really don't like it.

[Mothers Worry]

Its interesting to keep in mind this is the teams wanting the change, not Burnie or Max. It could be part of their game or maybe the teams really don't like it.

I have considered that.

Obviously F1 is bound up in "if it isn't boring and it creates competition we should change it". It sounds like they have picked up whatever disease Ecclestone has been spreading around.

[Supersleeper]

I think they need to employ some dancing bears.........and the winner of qualifying gets a pony......and his team mate has to lead him around the paddock all weekend while he's riding it.

[NCB619]

I think they need to employ some dancing bears.........and the winner of qualifying gets a pony......and his team mate has to lead him around the paddock all weekend while he's riding it.

agreed, but not to the bears bit. Everyone knows bears are evil, and maul everything in sight when released into the public

[Everso Biggyballies]

I think they need to employ some dancing bears.........and the winner of qualifying gets a pony......and his team mate has to lead him around the paddock all weekend while he's riding it.

agreed, but not to the bears bit. Everyone knows bears are evil, and maul everything in sight when released into the public

I thought that was only Ron.....  or maybe French Toast, Gerharts  Team Manager at STR.  He has a bit of  a dark side of ways to deal with drivers.... Thinks Scott Speed....

[Everso Biggyballies]

Team heads gather in Geneva for FOTA meeting today (Thursday.)

Medals, cost cutting and engines to be discussed
   

   

As ever, plenty for FOTA to discuss, as Formula One team bosses have travelled to Geneva, Switzerland, for Thursday's meeting of the FOTA alliance.

They intend to discuss Bernie Ecclestone's proposed 'medals' scoring system for the first time, as well as a possible shake-up for the qualifying format.

More pressing on the agenda, however, is cost-cutting, under the threat that FIA President Max Mosley will impose draconian measures if the teams cannot themselves propose worthwhile money-saving proposals.

With Mosley already threatening to proceed with engine standardisation, the pressure is on FOTA to put together a cohesive package before next week's meeting of the FIA's World Motor Sport Council.

"A lot has been defined for 2009, more is to come for 2010 and 2011 to reduce costs and improve the show.
These are the leading principles," Ferrari spokesman Luca Colajanni confirmed to The Guardian newspaper.

Believed to be the most radical of the proposals for discussion is a move from 2.4 litre V8 engines for 2011 to fuel-efficient turbo 1.8 litre engines.

This specification, using about 30 percent less fuel than the current engines, could pave the way for a ban on mid-race refuelling.

[Timbit]

More pressing on the agenda, however, is cost-cutting, under the threat that FIA President Max Mosley will impose draconian measures if the teams cannot themselves propose worthwhile money-saving proposals.

This particualar part of the article scares me the most. I wonder if it also covers ideas that aren't 'cost effective' enough.

In any case, if Mosley does get free reign over the rules, there will be not telling what will come of it. Well, actually, we can all assume to know where it will go (think of a bowl you sit on in the bathroom), but how is another question.

Anyway, the idea of 1.8L is interesting given that they're turbo'd as well, and what with fuel efficiency the main priority, I think the case for a Turbo may be good! It'll be nothing like from the 80's though, and I do wonder how the output will be capped.

All this though is reminding me of the 70's

[Everso Biggyballies]

Re the FOTA meeting held in London yesterday (originally said to be held in Geneva) the following proposals have been suggested.  Incidentally that is where the leak of Honda's shock exit plan came to light....


FOTA to propose radical cost-cuts

FOTAFormula One's team owners will present a package of radical cost-cuts to the FIA World Motor Sport Council next week, as they move to head off the threat of a standard engine being introduced.

Following unanimous agreement in a meeting of the Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) in London on Thursday, it was confirmed in a statement by the organisation that the teams plan to propose a new low-cost engine for 2011 and the implementation of substantial cost-cutting measures for the next two years.

These are believed to include drastically reducing the current 30,000km testing limit by half.

"FOTA met today in London to address the relevant commercial challenges that are faced by Formula One," read the statement. "The teams had previously unanimously agreed measures that will significantly reduce costs in 2009.

"In today's meeting the teams have agreed to further measures implementing substantial cost cutting for 2009 and 2010, and additional initiatives to improve the show.

"Furthermore it is unanimously agreed that a new low cost engine will be introduced in 2011."

The FIA has asked for teams to come up with concrete proposals to reduce costs in the sport, with FIA president Max Mosley warning that F1 is currently unsustainable. Such moves are set to have a new urgency from tomorrow, with Honda's F1 future in serious doubt.

The new engine formula being proposed is believed to be based on a 1.8-litre turbocharged unit featuring energy recovery systems and designed to consume 30% less than current fuel levels.

FOTA also confirmed that it will make proposals to spice up qualifying. The new idea being considered consists of all cars being on track at the same time with the same amount of fuel, with the slowest driver being eliminated after each lap.

[Everso Biggyballies]

FOTA looking to cut Race Lengths

At the recent FOTA meeting it has also emerged that one of FOTA's unanimous proposals to cut costs, but retain F1's principles, is to reduce races from their current 300km to just 250km in 2009 and beyond.

Hmmmm me can see this looking like TV coverage could drop to a 1 hr highlights thing for the race.  On the bright side it would be easier for the network ( ) to put in a 1 hour LIVE slot....

[the Stig]

It just gets worse and worse - I'm really starting to go into doom and gloom mode with F1