Forum Suggestion Box

[Courtney No. 1]

Just going to say props to you BP for not being an autocratic idiot and trying to take total control.  I won't always agree with all of the mods, but the more mods there are and the more that you guys are able to work together constructively the better.  At the end of the day the place is for fun, who cares if there is a random extra thread on something.  Some people seem to take things far too seriously.

[bpratt]

Just going to say props to you BP for not being an autocratic idiot and trying to take total control.  I won't always agree with all of the mods, but the more mods there are and the more that you guys are able to work together constructively the better.  At the end of the day the place is for fun, who cares if there is a random extra thread on something.  Some people seem to take things far too seriously.

Thanks for your comments.

That's the important thing, we don't want a bunch of 'yes' men around here, these forums are here for because there's a bunch of independantly thinking individuals who share a love of everything motorsport, and that's why I started up these forums (other than the fact I despised that invision software with a passion ) Millsie got the first version going, and I hope to keep things moving along from there. But these forums are great because people have different opinions and are free to discuss them, even if I don't agree with them !!


The admin/mod team has people with different ideas and perspectives, and whilst some might think that a bad thing, I really believe that as a group we can discuss things rationally, and come to a far better result than just having 2 or 3 mates with the same opinions blindly agreeing with each other, which may or may not be good for the forum as a whole.

Anyway, let's get to discussing motorsport again.  

[Timbit]

As a number of grown men (and some younguns I guess), I would imagine we could, no, should be able to conduct ourselves accordingly?

Moderators are just normal users with added roles, roles that normal users don't have to worry about doing. People shouldn't have to go to Moderators or Admin to settle their own squabbles, and in my opinion, it's a sad state of affairs if Moderator intervention is necessary to break up a fight that those involved can't see has spiraled out of control.

You didn't pay to enter here or become a member, so in reality, no one really owes you anything! Yet you have full access to avatars and image signatures and full posting privileges to say pretty much whatever you could say to someone who you saw out in the street, or trackside, or wherever.

Don't take it for granted and enjoy what you have.

[Oldtony]

It is of course immpossible to have a face to face discussion on the internet, but let's try and do it anyway.
It has become reasonably obvious over the last few weeks that there has been some dispute among the moderators, and among some of the long term posters. It becomes very easy, even for mature people to take or give offence when corresponding in arial or some other equally boring type face which limits the communication of mood, feeling or attitude.
So far there has been a rather good atmosphere in this forum. There have been a number of visiting Trolls, but they have dissapeared pretty quickly when they have either been given no oxygen, or have been demonstrated to have little knowledge and less intelligence. The snag I see now is that there seem to be some people who I admire and respect getting offside with each other, and I don't know what to do about it as I don't know what is going on in the background.
The job of moderating is a tough one, made even tougher by the fact that everyone wants to second guess you. Being a moderator also requires a thick skin, but the ability to make judgements in the best interests of the forum. Perhaps that job should be more out in the open, but not carried out within a specific interest thread. Justice done should be seen to be done.
That being said can I ask these questions.
1: Could the mods open a thread at the top of the Forum and openly state what they find acceptable or otherwise as persons, rather than as mods.
2: From now on if anyone is to be given a holiday, or an outright ban, could the reasons be posted  in a discipliary thread.
3: Perhaps some of us old farts get a little bit knowall and dogmatic at times. Don't be afraid to tell us. Simillarly there a lot of less experienced members who tend to let their passions overtake their reasoning. We reserve the right to tell them that. Providing the debate stays on thread, and within the bounds of reasonable civility why not let it continue.
4: Could the mods adopt a policy of allowing that sort of thing to happen, and could the members please respect the rights of the mods to judge when disscussion should cease.
5: Would the mods please respond to this in the open, rather than by PM, preferably with liberal use of winking, laughing and unsure emoticons.

[Oldtony]

Bump

[bpratt]

The job of moderating is a tough one, made even tougher by the fact that everyone wants to second guess you. Being a moderator also requires a thick skin, but the ability to make judgements in the best interests of the forum. Perhaps that job should be more out in the open, but not carried out within a specific interest thread. Justice done should be seen to be done.
That being said can I ask these questions.
1: Could the mods open a thread at the top of the Forum and openly state what they find acceptable or otherwise as persons, rather than as mods.

And the question I ask is "how long is a piece of string" ?  ... it's a bit like how do you define pornography... it's not all that easy to put in hard and fast definitions.

There are a couple of posts in forum news up the top that attempt to explain the rules and a 'how to enjoy AMF'.

Now to let the cat out of the bag , we have a sub-forum here called Mod Central where we as moderators are expected to use to discuss various forum issues, which sadly a few have chosen to continue their discussions outside of there via PM's or emails, and simply failing to rationally discuss the issues as they come up within the team.    

2: From now on if anyone is to be given a holiday, or an outright ban, could the reasons be posted  in a discipliary thread.

It could be done, but I think many might consider it as a personal attack on the person concerned. I won't completely discount that idea at this stage, as the others in the admin/mod team may or may not choose to implement such a scheme.

3: Perhaps some of us old farts get a little bit knowall and dogmatic at times. Don't be afraid to tell us. Simillarly there a lot of less experienced members who tend to let their passions overtake their reasoning. We reserve the right to tell them that. Providing the debate stays on thread, and within the bounds of reasonable civility why not let it continue.

That's the important thing as you said, is keeping a thread on topic. As we're all well aware topics can go off at a tangent, and most forum members will try and move it back on topic if they see it starting to drift.

4: Could the mods adopt a policy of allowing that sort of thing to happen, and could the members please respect the rights of the mods to judge when disscussion should cease.

I haven't really see many if any instances where a thread has diverged, and a moderator has jumped on anyone for it diverging until it had gone several posts well away from topic.

5: Would the mods please respond to this in the open, rather than by PM, preferably with liberal use of winking, laughing and unsure emoticons.

Your wish is my command.  

             

[Oldtony]

Fair enough BP.
I have adopted a temporary policy of not replying to PMs because if they, and the closed moderators thread didn't exist this problem would probably not exist.
My summation of this situation is that it is very like the FOTA/FIA situation. There is a fair bit of right on both sides, but all the fans really want is for things to settle down, everyone take a deep breath and get on with what we all do best, i.e. exchange motor sport information and opinion.
I would like to see everyone involved contribute to this thread out in the open. I don't think that is nsccsaririly going to settle everything, but I've always found that if you have to say something in public you tend to think about how other people will interpret what you have to say. If you don't have an ego like Max, or foot in mouth like Bernie, then you will fairly rapidly start to see that niether you, or whoeever you dissagree with have interests more important than the whole community.

[Supersleeper]

1: Could the mods open a thread at the top of the Forum and openly state what they find acceptable or otherwise as persons, rather than as mods.

How to enjoy the Australian Motorsport Forums is here:
http://www.australianmotorsportforums.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=3.0

Worth a read........lately some people seem to have forgotten the generally accepted notion that every second word shouldn't start with"f".

2: From now on if anyone is to be given a holiday, or an outright ban, could the reasons be posted  in a discipliary thread.

I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't publicise someone's banning - it's bad enough that they were banned....    Nobody gets banned out of spite - it's because they didn't have a read of the link in point 1. 
 I don't like the idea of publicly "naming and shaming" someone - that wasn't the point of the question I'm sure - however I think that's what it would turn out to be.

3: Perhaps some of us old farts get a little bit knowall and dogmatic at times. Don't be afraid to tell us. Simillarly there a lot of less experienced members who tend to let their passions overtake their reasoning. We reserve the right to tell them that. Providing the debate stays on thread, and within the bounds of reasonable civility why not let it continue.

Well there's probably nothing wriong with that. The only issue I have with those types of conversations is that if I bumped into someone and started having a conversation about something, and they went on and on about things I had never heard of, where they dominated the conversation and seemed only to want to make me feel inferior in my conversation and understanding of the topic, I be inclined to avoid enagaging in conversation with them in the future. We have a very broad spectrum of posters in this community - some of us know nothing about the sport we love and some of us actually competed in some of the very first events that comprised various championships.  On occasions perspective can be lost about how we are engaging with each other - there's no set rules for that, it's just a form of "social awareness".
For me - I find it far more justifiable that someone takes the time to defend a situation than attack it. We seem to be quite tolerant of armchair experts telling us how easy it it, when all honesty they have absolutley no idea how difficult things are. This applies to all areas of sports, whether it be competitors, administrators or broadcasters.

I think in general we should spend less time criticising and more time congratulating - however due to an epidemic in "personal victory" syndrome in modern society, that one is almost an impossible ask. 

4: Could the mods adopt a policy of allowing that sort of thing to happen, and could the members please respect the rights of the mods to judge when disscussion should cease.

We're still dicussing that. 

5: Would the mods please respond to this in the open, rather than by PM, preferably with liberal use of winking, laughing and unsure emoticons.

I've done my best to be open and honest about how I see things. I know that I'm not the most liberal of people, however, having seen the absolute rubbish that can be found on other forums on the net, I'd rather see people be told up front that being abusive/trolling/using bad language for the sake of it, isn't acceptable. We've got members of various ages in here, and I think the older one's should be setting positive examples for the youger ones..... where possible.

The above aren't hard and fast rules either - we all fail on occasions to live up to our own reasonable expectations, but above, generally, is what I'd like to see, and participate in, with other members.

[f1engineer]

SS, I would like to see why someone was banned, and have transperency for the reasoning. This is a great place that has evolved from a shutdown to Millsie's place, then onto Yoda's & Pratty's efforts. Some of us have been here since RPM Like Nayr, ANT & Millsie (& heaps of others)
Surfers made it feel more "homely" with all the art work and some special requests  etc etc.
I love this place, as alot of us do. I will take the stand that I did with Brades and others, If someone doesn't like it,  off and leave.
Unfortunately not everyone is going to get along, and yes, we all have our cage rattled from time to time, but i guess with some transperency it will be a little less secretive and give examples of what NOT to do. I'm not asking for a public stoning if someone types the F word instead of using the firetruck that Surfers went to efforts to make for us (donated) just that it be explained how the sentencing had been arrived.
By the look of some of my PM's, things will be interesting for the next month.

[Supersleeper]

SS, I would like to see why someone was banned, and have transperency for the reasoning.

.. in the format
"X has been given a holiday from the AMF for a period of Y days. The ban has been enforced due A,B and C, the member was warned and continued to avoid follow the rules of the forum." 

My concern is the next step of replies which consist of "I didn't notice that"/"that's not trolling"/"that wasn't abusive at all"/"I don't think it was that bad".....when the mods have actually spent a lot of time documenting a series of indescretions that occur across all boards, over a period of time...and warn the member. It then becomes a debate, rather than a decision - and that minimises the role of the mods.

Ultimately - it doesn't occur that often, and when it does, it no surprise to anyone. More importantly - it's a facet of the operation of the forums that should be of the lowest priority to members - becasue there' a hundred good things that happen in here for every bad thing that occurs. So I think the "one percenters" should be sorted by the mods.

As for transaprency - I've no issue with that.

I would assume posters who read across all boards are probably aware of the behaviour of certain members and are rarely surprised if that member gets a holiday. Perhaps the greatest source of surprise might be that it took so long.......   

[bpratt]

SS, I would like to see why someone was banned, and have transperency for the reasoning.

Yeah, something like that would be nice to see that some action has been taken again people who are becoming a problem to other members, but as SS said, chances are is that it'll open up a whole series of questions and debates that will take away from the moderators time to try to explain it.

There is already a lot of discussions going on in the moderators discussion area that members don't get to see, which takes time and enjoyment away from each of the moderators, which we do to try and keep everyone happy in these forums, but if we then have to explain the details of how a decision was made, and then debate it, then no one is going to be very happy.

As SS also suggested, and we will discuss this option , that "user X has been given a holiday/permanently banned/whatever, for a period of Y days, and this was due to blah blah, and that member has been warned prior to this happening, but chose to continue with what they were doing" post.

Just quickly the only way I can see that working at all, is if it is an announcement only section, i.e. no one can reply to that post/thread.

Fortunately, such things don't occur too often, as on many occasions the team took the easy way out and let things ride.

I've always been one to take firm action early on to nip things in the bud, but because we have a team that has various perspectives on how things should go on in here, a lot of the time things mellow out, and a middle of the road approach.

The funny part is that one of the admin/mod team, who happens to be standing down soon, suggested that OT's post that started off this discussion was in effect "forum bashing", and was implied that he should be dealt with in exactly the same way which if someone brand new to the forum and had've posted the same question, which is possible ban.
The difference as I see it, is that OT is a long term respected member of these forums, and clearly was asking some sensible questions in a civil manner, rather than a newbie being a smartarse by "forum bashing".


Transparency is important, and MW and Bumble started work a while ago on a project to establish a very fair and transparent way to deal with forum infractions which I fully support, sadly though it has gone on the backburner so to speak, as have some other AMF projects of late.

[Oldtony]

OK, can I do another bit of "Forum Bashing".
My problem is that this has degenerated into what would appear to be a loose-loose situation for everyone. And it has developed unseen and un reported to the vast bulk of users of the forum.
I have no way, and certainly no intention of making jugements as to who is right or wrong. That sort of court only sits in Paris.
What I, and I'm sure a lot of other users would like to see happen is some level of common ground found so that we can all participate. If there are projects and formats on hold let the membership have a discussion about their purpose, format and operation. It works if the proposers are ready to keep an open mind. Various people have put a hell of a lot of work into this forum, in starting it, in getting it widely known, in giving it an attractive and friendly format and in supplying some content which is equal or better than some of the professionaly run or moderated forums I have visited. Everyone has done that as a contribution to giving users entertainment and a voice. I've seen this forum quoted in some interesting places.
Now I'm just a part timer who doesn't do much towards the running of the place, so I probably have no right to say it, but:

PLEASE GET TOGETHER AND MAKE THIS PLACE WORK.


PS. I think the unanswerable announcement format for disciplinary measures would work well. Perhaps the Mods could use a policy of only acting on complaint. If a mod felt he needed to make a complaint that mod would not participate in sentencing.

[bpratt]

Perhaps the Mods could use a policy of only acting on complaint. If a mod felt he needed to make a complaint that mod would not participate in sentencing.

That idea has sort of been mentioned in passing before, if we sit on our hands an do nothing until we get a complaint, we'll then be generating a mess in the forums I'm afraid.

A moderators job is to be proactive, not reactive, so in part we'll stick to what we've been doing successfully for nearly 2 years now.

The second part is something that we've been doing all the way through, if one of the mod team was the agrieved party, they have sat back and not voted. I've had to sit back on several occasions and not vote on action, when clearly I've seen the need to take such action in the first place.

[f1engineer]

Judges decision is final, No correspondence entered into.
Pretty simple, and yes Pro active and not reactive.
On Sailing Anarchy, there is a membership that tells you to  off when you join!!
We are not that sort of people, this place has always been welcoming and warm.

[adrenalinmatt1]

Introduction Section?

When we get the new forum Design should we create a new section called the introduction section where people can post there hello's or congrats about how great the website is or how they found the website?

I think since at the moment people don't no where to post them we should really think about getting this section in for the new forum.

That way we know who has joined the site, Because latley i have realize that people join but don't say hello they just post away.   

I think it's a pretty good idea