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Author Topic: KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems)  (Read 8234 times)

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Offline f1engineer

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Re: KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems)
« Reply #140 on: March 22, 2009, 12:14:34 pm »
I suppose they have alot of testing to catch up on OT, only reason i can see why they would say such a thing.
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Offline formulagpguys

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Re: KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems)
« Reply #141 on: March 24, 2009, 09:13:56 pm »
Some of you may be interested in this short video of the Williams F1 KERS system the team has provided.  Sadly no narration so helps if you know how it works in the first place :RollEyes:
http://www.ozracingwrap.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=400:video-of-the-williams-f1-kers-system&catid=34:formula-1&Itemid=53

Offline f1engineer

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Re: KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems)
« Reply #142 on: March 24, 2009, 09:22:29 pm »
Thanks Oz, might have to change my F1 tips.
I'm not too familiar with gyroscopics, but this may have a positive effect on stability. I know the marine industry is using them to increase stability in rough weather, with great results. I would presume the constantly accellerating mass would also help smooth out a bumpy track.... will be interesting to see.
I also wondered what they use for power transfer, hmmm, could they have gone the hydraulic solution? ;)
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Offline Everso Biggyballies

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Re: KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems)
« Reply #143 on: March 24, 2009, 09:56:16 pm »
Thanks Oz, might have to change my F1 tips.
I'm not too familiar with gyroscopics, but this may have a positive effect on stability. I know the marine industry is using them to increase stability in rough weather, with great results. I would presume the constantly accellerating mass would also help smooth out a bumpy track.... will be interesting to see.
I also wondered what they use for power transfer, hmmm, could they have gone the hydraulic solution? ;)

Dont get too excited about changing your tips for Melbourne F1E.... Williams wont be running KERS so they have said.  I updated the preview earlier this evening with the latest who is and isnt running KERS at the AGP.  Right at the end of this post: ;)

http://www.australianmotorsportforums.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=2132.msg45966#msg45966

A couple of links that go into the Williams system in a bit more depth F1E, may give you some of the answers.... :crossed: ;)

http://www.australianmotorsportforums.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=641.msg23799#msg23799

http://www.flybridsystems.com/F1System.html
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Offline Prophet][

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Re: KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems)
« Reply #144 on: March 30, 2009, 06:14:08 pm »

I'm not too familiar with gyroscopics, but this may have a positive effect on stability. I know the marine industry is using them to increase stability in rough weather, with great results. I would presume the constantly accellerating mass would also help smooth out a bumpy track.... will be interesting to see.


One thing it can also do is created whats called a yaw moment when turning and increase handling. Its pretty interesting if your into that kind of stuff and a nerd like me. Researched alot in the fighter aircraft industry. The only problem for williams is that to get the most out of a yaw moment the fly wheel would need to be moveable or have its direction changed at the least. I'm sure their are other ways to get the most out of it but my knowledge is limited.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaw_(flight)

Offline Cammos

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Re: KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems)
« Reply #145 on: April 02, 2009, 08:17:06 pm »
Signature removed due to it just being plain stupid!

Offline Oldtony

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Re: KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems)
« Reply #146 on: April 02, 2009, 09:00:49 pm »
Interesting that video says that Williams is using the flywheel to store energy from an electrical generator/motor and then retuning it via the reverse route. Thus the system is basically electrical the same as BMW, Ferrari and Renault but uses a flywheel to store the energy rather than a battery or a supercapacitor.
All the other presentations I have seen on the Williams/Flybrid system have mechanical connections through a Constant Variable Transmission system between the engine crankshaft or the gearbow input shaft with no electrical component.  Be interesting to look for the presence or absence of "Danger High Voltage" signs when Williams appearsw with KERS fitted.
Doesn't seem to be any info in the public domain on the McMerc KERS system and apparently the Honda/Brawn system is flywheel based, but no info on whether it is Fly/Mech or Fly/Elect.
A lot of knockers around but this development really is going to be of huge benefit to city cycle road car users. :ThumbsUp:
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Offline Everso Biggyballies

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Re: KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems)
« Reply #147 on: April 03, 2009, 01:43:14 am »


Yes OT I think I mentioned here recently that Brawn will be the first 100%  Flywheel KERS, (a couple of pages back)  ;) .
"Why doesnt someone tell Pedro its raining"- Chris Amon 1000km Brands Hatch 1970

Jimmy Blumer(Cooper)Spa 1960 "The accident was caused by Cockpit Thrombosis- a dangerous clot between seatback and steering wheel"

Offline bpratt

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Re: KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems)
« Reply #148 on: April 03, 2009, 09:25:27 am »
The special KERS gloves issued trackside for the AGP proved to be more of hinderence than anything else.

The 3 layer gloves costing over $50 a pair, ended up being taken off by most trackside people when they entered the track to remove the debris of the first corner incident, as the gloves made it impossible to pick up anything other than rather large chunks.

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Offline Everso Biggyballies

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Re: KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems)
« Reply #149 on: April 11, 2009, 11:15:08 pm »

Citroen have begun testing a new WRC Hybrid (KERS) WRC car.

Its not legal yet under WRC rules, but although launched as a concept car at last years Paris Motor Show it has now been tested on a WRC stage by a WRC driver.  More details and comments from Citroen:

http://www.australianmotorsportforums.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=2820.msg49625#msg49625
"Why doesnt someone tell Pedro its raining"- Chris Amon 1000km Brands Hatch 1970

Jimmy Blumer(Cooper)Spa 1960 "The accident was caused by Cockpit Thrombosis- a dangerous clot between seatback and steering wheel"

Offline Oldtony

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Re: KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems)
« Reply #150 on: November 28, 2010, 03:37:28 pm »
What could have been:
Honda’s F1 KERS motor: 60 kW, 21,000 RPM, >7 kg
25 November 2010
by Jack Rosebro

 
2009 Honda Formula One chassis configuration, showing KERS component location. Click to enlarge.

During the EVS 25 electric vehicle expo in Shanghai earlier this months, Honda engineers presented a glimpse into the development of an advanced high-performance electric motor that Honda had designed as part of a KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) intended for its 2009 Formula One race car.

KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) regenerative braking systems are limited to storing up to 400 kilojoules of energy per lap, which can then be released at up to 60 kW (80 hp) for up to 6.67 seconds as part of a “push-to-pass” strategy. Depending on track design, this can increase vehicle acceleration by up to 15 kilometers per hour, gaining up to 20 meters of distance per lap.

However, KERS systems present significant design challenges in that they must be implemented without adversely affecting vehicle aerodynamics, weight, weight distribution, collision safety, fuel tank capacity, or center of gravity. Honda engineers decided to implement an electric motor/battery pack solution, rather than a flywheel solution, mounting the motor on the engine’s left front side with its power control unit (PCU) ahead of it, inside the monocoque chassis.


The motor was cooled by engine oil and the PCU was cooled by a dedicated coolant loop. The 106-cell lithium-ion battery pack was mounted in the forward section of the vehicle’s keel to preserve the vehicle’s center of gravity and take advantage of draft air cooling.

Given the light weight (minimum 620 kg/1,367 pounds) and compact design of Formula One cars, Honda calculated that the motor would have to be no more than 100 mm (4 inches) in diameter, 200 mm in length, and produce approximately 8 kilowatts (kW) per kilogram (almost 5 hp per pound) of motor weight. By comparison, a typical mass production hybrid or electric vehicle motor produces between 1.0 and 2.5 kW per kilogram.

Stator Core. A three-phase, four-pole, twelve-tooth design with a double lap-wound stator and permanent magnet rotor was selected. Operating motor speed would be roughly equivalent to engine speed, with a range of 13,000 to 21,000 rpm (engine speed was limited to 18,000 rpm during the 2009 F1 season).


An initial concern, particularly given the high motor speed, was the effect of iron losses in the stator core, which is typically an AC motor’s heaviest component. Conventional grain-oriented silicon steel was not efficient enough to be used in a motor that would meet the project’s motor size and weight targets, and an iron-cobalt alloy (49Fe-49Co-2V) was used to produce the motor’s stator core laminations. This yielded a 30% increase in flux density and a 15% increase in torque.

 
Relative magnetic flux densities of 49Fe-49Co-2V iron-cobalt alloy, as compared to more common silicon steel. Click to enlarge.

The iron-cobalt alloy’s iron losses were further reduced via a combination of technologies. A post-rolling heat treatment reduced core hysteresis losses, and an ultra-thin oxidized insulation coating was developed, which allowed the engineers to reduce stator core lamination thickness to a tenth of a millimeter per lamination while preserving the desired iron-to-insulation ratio. These refinements reduced the alloy’s iron losses by a further 60%.

 
The magnetic flux density of Honda’s iron- cobalt alloy was increased through multiple refinements. Click to enlarge.

Although Honda has not released details of the motor control strategy, the maximum current frequency for a 21,000 rpm four-pole motor, assuming an equal number of poles in both rotor and stator, is 700Hz, and pulse width modulated voltages driving a motor at such a speed must inherently use extremely fast transients, creating voltage stresses within the winding. Not surprisingly, the stator winding was wound with scratch-resistant inverter duty wire to reduce the possibility of pinholes created during the manufacturing and/or winding process, and therefore reduce the possibility of winding failure.

Rotor Design. Honda developed a high-coercivity magnet with an intrinsic coercivity of at least 1.1 Ma/m at 160ºC (320ºF), and tuned the magnetization angles for maximum torque. To minimize temperature increases and resultant eddy current losses, 448 magnets (28 axially, 16 circumferentially) were used in the rotor’s interior PM configuration.


Rotor diameter was reduced by employing the rotor’s shaft as part of the rotor flux circuits. A high tensile filament winding made of organic high-strength fibers encloses the rotor, preventing magnet burst at the centrifugal forces produced at the rotor’s 21,000 rpm redline. The rotor’s ceramic ball bearings were lubricated by high-temperature grease rather than oil, to simplify the oil circuit and reduce losses.

 
Section view of motor, showing rotor and stator coolant flow paths; engine oil is used as coolant. Click to enlarge.

A water-cooled motor was initially developed, but could not meet Honda’s size/performance targets. The final motor was cooled by engine oil, with stator cooling passages around the circumference of the rotor and the rotor cooled by oil passing through its hollow shaft. A thin cylindrical resin sleeve structure was mounted in the motor’s rotor-stator air gap to isolate stator cooling oil from the rotor and eliminate windage losses.

 
Front-mounted gearbox, which transfers motor torque to the engine crankshaft. Click to enlarge.

Implementation and testing. Motor torque was delivered to the engine’s crankshaft via a front-mounted five-gear gearbox. Vehicle testing commenced in April 2008 with straight course accelerations, and progressed into circuit tests at Silverstone the following month. Additional circuit tests were conducted at full load in September, at the Jerez circuit in Spain, yielding the following results:

•Lap times were reduced by ~0.4 seconds per lap at full assist;
•Speed was increased by 7 km/h, resulting in a gain of 7.8 meters (1.6 car lengths) on a straightaway with a continuous 324 kJ of assist.
The final design achieved 7.8 kW (10.46 hp) of power per kilogram, close to Honda's design goal of 8 kilowatts per kilogram. Peak motor efficiency was 99% and peak generator efficiency during regen was 93%. Motor weight was 6.9 kilograms.

 
Estimated lap time reductions on FI circuits, using Honda's KERS motor drive. Click to enlarge.

KERS systems were introduced to Formula One during the 2009 racing season, and were key to several race wins, but were subsequently withdrawn due to development issues. KERS is expected to return to F1 in 2013, concurrent with the introduction of new engine regulations. Honda sold its Formula One team to Brawn GP Limited in 2009.

Source

•Development of F1 KERS motor, November 2010 Tamotsu Kawamura, Hirofumi Atarashi, and Takehiro Miyoshi, Automobile R & D Center, Honda R & D Co., Ltd.
I wondrer if the drawings and patents were transfered to Brawn. I doubt it as the release of this information has come from Honda and I am sure Mercedees would have kept it in house if they now controlled the information.
By the way this can be accessed through F1tecchnical.com which is a great site for the real interesting things in F1 which doesn't include "celebrity drivers" having hissy fits.

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Offline Oldtony

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Re: KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems)
« Reply #151 on: January 23, 2011, 12:34:31 pm »
The KERS scene for 2011

Double difusers and F Ducts gone, movable rear wings and Pirrelli tyres, All new factors for 2011.
But my very uninformed guess is that the return of KERS will be a major contributor to results, although wether it will contribute to more passing is not a given.
Let's look at it team by team.
Red Bull.
Unknown. Logic would guess that they would use the Renault system developed in association with the (real) Renault factory engines. The thing to consider is that Red Bull have developed and been using their own transmission from flywheel back so comonality does not automaticaly follow. The other factor is Adrian Newey who is very much a lateral thinker so we couldbe in for someting from left field. Could be brilliant or a reliabilty disaster.
Team (Tony Fernandez) Lotus have a technical agreement with RBR and will be using Renault engines so would guess they will use the RBR system.
Ferrari had developed a workable system in 2009 and by the end of the season it was starting to work reasonably well. You would think that they, and partners Magnetti Marrelli would have forther developed the system so that it is now a mature bit of engineering. A transmission mounted motor generator battery storage system
In all probability Sauber and STR will use the Ferrai system along with the Ferrri power plants.
McLaren had by a long way the most effective and mature system in 2009. Developed in conjunction with Mercedes, Zytec and McLaren Electronics it will probably be an even more reliable and mature development of that unit and be seamlessly mated to the Mercedes power plant. Again battery electrical.
Mercedes/Brawn will probably use the same system. Honda had developed a very effective system for 2009, but it would appear that was one part of the technology that was hurried back to Japan instead of being left in Brawn hands as outlined in the previous post.
FI will probably get the customer version of the McMerc version..
Lotus Renault (Bahar) should inherit the Renault package that was quite effective, but not very well integrated fron a control point of view in the Renault at season end 2009. But then they had Piquet Jnr doing some of the sorting which is probably not helpfull in developing fine control variations. With (real) Renault having moved away from F1 to being an engine supplier it is quite probable that the system has not benefited from ongoing R&D during the 2010 hiatus. Hard to judge but there was supposedly some Marrelli input to the original system so could be helped by that. Maybe there has been some cooperation with RBR and effectively we could have the two Lotuses sharing not only a name but an engine/drivetrain set up.
Williams Flywheel electric system has never run F1 but has been under continued development in partnership with Porsche and has proved very efective in that setting. The Porsche is however a system that uses front whell generation and recycling of drive power as well as the rear wheels, which is not allowed under the F1 regs. How much of that technology will thus be applicable is an unknown.
The other possibility is that some teams may elect to not use KERS. That is not quite as attractive an option as in 2009 because of the increase in minimum wieght and the mandatory wieght distribution regs in force for 2011.
All very interesting stuff, but it could be even more interesting if the F1 regs hadn't placed a whole bunch of daft regulation on KERS that has dumbed down the technological opportunity that it otherwise promised. Roll on final testing when we might get a glimmer of what is happening.
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Offline bpratt

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Re: KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems)
« Reply #152 on: January 28, 2011, 05:38:59 pm »
I am really hoping that we'll see a far different 2011 than a 2009 KERS, as like you said there will be some maturity with the different KERS packages, along with the different weights of cars.

Like you, I find the dumming down of KERS in what used to be the cutting edge of technology, i.e. Formula One is not really a smart idea.


Anyway, we'll see how things pan out in pre-season testing as to how teams have come to grips with KERS.
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